Prospective Client Inquiry: Restaurant Executive portrait needed

This client wrote in an e-mail asking for an assignment to be done in the local area.

John,

I need a digital portrait of the manager and head chef of {restaurant name} in {downtown city location}.

The portrait (both of them in the same shot, square-ish or vertical) needs to be done on location next week during the day, prior to the restaurant opening at 5pm.

Can you please let me know if you’re interested, your availability, and email me an estimate.

This is for one-time editorial use in a newsletter which is send through the mail, and sent digitally.

Thank you,
{client name & phone number}

Within the next week, during the day before 5pm.

The following information should give you a clear indication of the rights granted (and not granted) for this use. Note, this uses the PLUS description, with the License Parameters integrated into the Description for this specific use, and is based upon my interpretation of the rights package requested, and the language I used to respond to the client, based upon the USEPLUS.com website:

PLUS Pack: Periodical Interior - One Issue (PPIO)

Description (for this use)
Use on an interior page of a newsletter. Applies to a single printed issue of a periodical. Includes distribution of same issue on publisher’s website/e-mailed. Allows reproduction of page for promotional purposes.

Licensing Parameters
One time use, English Only, USA.

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Note: Client did not stipulate the size it would run in their initial e-mail. A phone inquiry to the client revealed that the image would run at 1/8th page, or smaller - essentially a thumbnail, or slightly larger than a thumbnail.

Your Turn:

So, how would you estimate this assignment? Do you have all the answers/information, either from the client, or me, to provide an estimate? Please give it some thought, and post your estimate details. As you learned in math class - 'show your work'. In other words, don't just present a single dollar figure. Break it out, creative/usage together (or separate, your call), and outline expenses, both probable and possible.

Setting aside how your estimate would be nicely and neatly laid out, put the crux of the estimate in your entry.

All entries are moderated. Your entry must be thoughtful, (and considerate of others when you're making a response) for it to be approved.

Posted by John Harrington on 01/01
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Please post your questions/comments/responses via the form below.

I’m not really a professional, I’m just starting my own photography business but I want to respond here in hopes that I can figure out if my estimate would be okay for the job.

Creative Fee; $150
Equipment and other costs; $150 ; Includes lights wich may have to be rented and assistant fee’s.
License fee: One time usage, at thumbnail size, for wich I would reckon that a license fee of $100 should be reasonably priced.

Note; I did not include any fee’s for travelling and such expenses. Also I don’t know if the requested deadline asks for a higher price, or maybe a lower one.

I’d be happy to find out. 

Creative fee/ use- since it’s editorial: $600.00
digi capture: $125.00
digi post-production: $150.00
(web gallery proofs, 2 files conversions, file delivery)
Assistant: $225.00
Parking: $20.00
Total: $1120.00

BTW- Timo, If you have a photo biz you are professional. Time to learn the rules.

Equipment and other costs; $150 ; Includes lights wich may have to be rented and assistant fee’s

Tim - you are screwing assistants if you charge this. Your lights are probably going to cost around the $100 mark if you keep it simple. Assistants day rates should start at a minimum of $200.

as a result you will most likely make a loss on this job. think about how much it costs you to stay in business each year and how much you want to earn. Divide that by the number of days you expect to earn and I think you’ll find that the amounts you are charging won’t even cover the costs.

Project Fee: $625 ($400 creative, $225 usage)
Digital Capture & Delivery: $125
Retouching (at client’s option, due to small size of resulting image): $150
Assistant @ 225/day: $225
Transportation @ 100/day: $100
Total: $1225

My gut says that a 1/8 page newsletter portrait demands a whole lot less than this. I’m not really sure how to work that in to the bid, as the idea of cutting the quality of the portrait (even with the understanding that it’s to run small) is not an idea I really like.

My thoughts are that this is a simple, one person, in-and-out job so I’d quote GBP 150 plus travel expenses. Using a rate of 2 USD to 1 GBP this gives USD 300.

Eric and Alan (John?),
The fees I estimate for this would be similar to yours, a little lower though, however in my experience over the last year with clients not wanting to pay the client would just walk when they saw it. Not even want to negotiate. Several times I have received emails that basically say, “Thanks for getting back to us so quickly however you are out of our budget, we are going another way, we are going with another photographer, we decided to use stock or they don’t even answer follow up emails or phone calls. Here is an example I wrote on my BLOG about the type of dealing I’m talking about. http://bryansphotoaday.blogspot.com/2007/11/not-getting-paid-part-2.html

How do I need to rethink my estimates and contact? Thoughts?
Bryan Mitchell

Very similar pricing for me to the previous one…

Photography-- $250
Post Processing-- $100
Expenses, including delivery-- $50

Licence-- $150

Total Quote-- $550

I’d be discussing in a little more detail what the client wants and thinking about logistics before sending in the quote. I’m confident, for example, that I could do this with just small lights, but if it looked more like a job for big strobes, I would have to adjust the quote upwards and factor in an assistant, I would probably explain this to the client and see where this would leave us.

I was quoting on the basis of needing to get 2 or 3 ‘looks’ and being on-site for around 90mins-2hrs and with the ‘talent’ for about 30-45 mins…

*this seems to have been posted on the “financial planning company post, it was meant to go here, if you could delete it, that would be great*

Bryan, I just read your blog post and—wow, I would have definitely charged in the $2000 range, not including the unlimited future usage. And yes, I’ve had a lot more people contact me looking to get a $2000 assignment shot for $100 than I have had people with real budgets get in touch. I look at it as good experience sizing up clients and generating estimates, since there’s not much else you can do besides hope that the sticker shock leads them to budget more money in the future—and think of you when they have that big budget assignment that demands a Real Photographer.

Bryan,

I feel your pain. One thing I do is find out who they went with and fax/ email your quote to the other shooter. Nothing like telling them they left $850+ on the table. They probably went with a wedding/ family portrait shooter that charges $59 / sitting but normally makes their cash on prints. The client also is most likely not very image savvy. Everyone says they want top quality but everyone really will pay for it. Unfortunately the lower & mid markets are dropping out.

“I really like your work, but this new guy will do it for cheaper”

Is a phrase I hear far far too often…

Usually when I follow up the enquiry after the event I hear.

“Yes we got the photos back, we were frankly a little disappointed, we’ll definitely come and talk to you next time”

Unfortunately there is always a new guy and some people never learn…

Those of you that find out who the ‘other photographer’ was or follow up after the assignment—is there any protocol, or do you flat out ask “who did you decide to use?” or “how did it go?”

How do you ask? Just ask. Be polite & friendly but direct. It let’s you know who your competion is and also what the clients criteria was. If they hired a hack, either it’s not a job you wanted or they were shopping by price. I also ask why the choose the other person and for how much they charged if price was the issue.

As far the people above posts about charging $300-500, stop killing the market. Prices should be based on value & cost of doing business, not that it took a few hours for the shoot. The fact that it might be an in and out job has nothing to do with it. The fact that you can do it quicky is an assest. Also consider prep & packing, I might spend more time prepping for the job then the actual shoot.

On location doesn’t answer whether it’s in their kitchen for effect, or just because they can’t get away to a studio during the day. A full length kitchen shot will require more setup and equipment than a simple muslin behind a headshot.

I tend to avoid “over licensing” the work if the image is for that client (rather than for a third-party ad agency) and it appears to be a small project. It’s not even a major national magazine, just a newsletter.

If the restaurant is in a dinky little city like mine and being featured in a local newsletter, I might err on the low side:

Creative Fee: $350
Digital Production: $150
CD Delivery: $25
Basic 1-time editorial use: included
Additional single use: $150
Electronic (restaurant web site, 1-yr): included
Additional Year: $50

For higher-end restaurants, medium cities, regional newsletters:

Pre-production: $150
Creative Fee: $450
Equipment Charge: $300 (extra lighting, gels, etc)
Digital Production: $225
CD Delivery: $25
Basic 1-time editorial use: included
Additional single use: $280
Electronic (restaurant web site, 1-yr): included
Additional Year: $75

Guess I would need a bit more info from client about whether they just want one location set-up or several different possibilities to choose from (in kitchen, at register, out front with store front, etc.). But assuming just one simple setup with one finished shot delivered via CD, I’d say:

Production fee $90 (2 hours)

Licensing fee $100

plus expenses with 10% markup and sales tax

Approximate total: $225